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  • There's been heated discussion on this wiki if we should mention anything about Clover's mental health on her article because the game does not make a connection between her actions and mental illness. AlexShepherd, who supports keeping the mental health section, has recently edited the section so that it sticks to "only canon information". http://zeroescape.wikia.com/wiki/Clover_Field?diff=prev&oldid=50083

    Please take a look at the edit and vote yes or no on if we should keep this information on her article.

    JuneSlade (ドナルド)

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    • I vote no.

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    • Nah. That was in one ending, and it's rather understandable since people can go crazy like that when they lose loved ones. 

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    • I vote yes. We shouldn't downplay her mental health concerns and her traumatic experiences.

      Clover has proven she's capable of being a psychopathic deranged serial killer, and it is NOT understandable she kills June and Junpei, among other reasons.

      Also, it's not just one ending, it's in two (Axe and Syringe in 999), and she threatens to kill everyone in VLR. She's emotionally and mentally unstable, prone to trauma, erratic bold behavior, violent outbursts and murder. It's a noteworthy personality trait.

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    • I vote no. First, it may be in two endings, but that doesn't really matter, as both happen for mainly the same reason. This reason being that she previously lost Light, and as Taylor said, after people lose a loved one, they can be prone to insanity. Clover lost Light in 999 and Alice in VLR, two of the closest people to her, so she has a reason to be on edge afterwards.

      In the end it's just a theory that has no place on the wiki.

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    • That section is (currently) not a theory because it's been reduced to canon information. It's not speculative.

      Just because you lose someone close to you, it does not give you a solid reason or excuse to murder four others in revenge, or threaten to kill everyone else.

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    • We aren't trying to justify her actions. We're trying to say she isn't a psychopath. 

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    • Clover still has psychopathic tendencies, such as killing people (June/Junpei) who she knows may be innocent and showing no remorse, as well as taunting Junpei as he dies in the Syringe ending. Of course, she isn't a full-on psychopath like Mira, but Clover has displayed some. Even if Clover isn't a psychopath, it doesn't negate/dismiss her mental health concerns.

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    • Both of the above being because she believed that her brother was MURDERED. When someone close to you is killed, especially in sucha  brutal manner, you tend to go a bit crazy. She never shows any indication that she's in any way psychopathic when Snake/Alice are alive.

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    • Clover's craziness is over-the-top, highly implying she has some inherent mental instability which is notable imo. Even if she doesn't show any violent behavior when Light/Alice are alive, their deaths act as catalysts for her already damaged mental health.

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    • I wouldn't say it's over-the-top at all. And if she hasn't shown any of those traits when they AREN'T alive, then how can you say that she already has damaged mental health when there's no evidence for it that doesn't come until AFTER Snake/Alice die.

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    • The evidence is her over-the-top behavior (killing innocent people and showing no remorse). If you think it's justified, then so be it, but I don't.

      Clover has damaged mental health from possibly being in a traumatic car crash, being kidnapped and forced to play the Nonary Game three times in a row, being on the verge of death, seeing bodies and corpses, etc.

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    • Did the game ever say she was in the car crash, I remember it didn't, I don't know if the remake may clarify this.

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    • Yes, it did clarify that Clover and Snake were in a car crash and that's how Snake lost his eyesight and arm.

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    • Actually, I looked through the script (not fully) and I couldn't find any confirmation that Clover was in the actual car crash when it happened.

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    • Back to what I said before, even though it uses mainly canon content, the theory is at the beginning of the first paragraph, which is the idea that Clover is psychotic and has mental health issues.

      Anyways, I'm pretty sure the game said Snake was in the car crash, but Clover wasn't.

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    • From the article:

      "At times, Clover has displayed behavior consistent with someone suffering from an extreme case of PTSD (namely sudden outbursts of sociopathy and psychopathy), raising questions about her mental health."

      I wouldn't call this a theory, maybe something *opinionated* instead. But this is an easy fix by changing the beginning to "Clover has displayed behavior which could be interpreted as someone suffering..."

      The game itself, as far as I know, never clarifies if Clover was in the car crash. Again, we need sources.

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    • Like I said, it shouldn't be on the article. Why? Because it's still fanon, not canon. It doesn't matter if it's a theory or opinionated, it shouldn't be on the wiki imo. Even if it uses evidence that is canon, the conclusion is still a theory.

      Plus her "sudden outbursts" are only due to Snake or Alice dying. It can easily be said that she was put on edge because someone close to her died. Because of Snake, she caused the Axe/Syringe Ending, and because of Alice's she "kills" Luna because she thought Luna killed Alice.

      In the end, Clover doesn't seem to suffer from a mental illness, therefore it should be removed in my opinion.

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    • You're acting like the entire paragraph is about theorizing whether or not she has psychopathy, PTSD, etc, but it's not the case. It's literally just one sentence. The rest of it is about her (canon) erratic behavior, actions, traumatic experiences, etc.

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    • I'm acting that way cause it is. The entire paragraph is about how Clover may have a mental illness. The theory may be one sentence, but the rest of the paragraph is used to try to back that theory up, therefore my opinion is still that it should be removed.

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    • "The entire paragraph is about how Clover may have a mental illness."

      No, that's just your interpretation. The first sentence of a paragraph doesn't always have to indicate what the entire paragraph is about.

      The phrase "mental illness" isn't even said once. The paragraph is mainly about her odd, erratic behavior and concerns about her mental well being and mental health due to her actions.

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    • I vote no.

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    • I vote no, as well. It's too speculative to be on the wiki. Wiki should stick to being as close to canon as possible, and even though there is technically info to back it up-- it could be anything. We're not mental health professionals, we don't know Clover. It's not mentioned, it shouldn't be here. 

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    • I agree it needs to be removed, but I think Mira's should be kept because she is clearly a Psychopath._-

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    • I say most of Mira's can stay, besides the parts where we try to diagnose her and figure out how she got it, cause we ain't professionals and we don't know every single thing about her or how she became the way she is. If we try to diagnose, then it basically becomes a theory, which shouldn't be on the wiki imo.

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    • ZeroSkywalker65 wrote: I say most of Mira's can stay, besides the parts where we try to diagnose her and figure out how she got it, cause we ain't professionals and we don't know every single thing about her or how she became the way she is. If we try to diagnose, then it basically becomes a theory, which shouldn't be on the wiki imo.

      Agreed. we shouldn't try to diagnose her, we aren't doctors. We should leave that to MatPat.

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    • Mat probably doesn't even know this game exists :/

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    • True, I was joking.

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    • Thanks for voting everyone! The consensus has decided that the mental health section of Clover's article should be removed, so I will get to that immediately. Sometime soon, we will conduct a vote on Mira's mental health section as well so stay tuned for that!

      JuneSlade (ドナルド)

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    • Why do we need to have a vote on removing Mira's mental health? She's an obvious psychopathic serial killer with a victim count of at least 18, who kills people even outside the Decision Game. No one has wanted to remove it entirely, which is dumb and asinine. If anyone wants to revise it, go ahead, but voting on removing it entirely is stupid.

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    • Just keep the parts that are clear evidence in the game, get rid of the speculation and diagnosis.

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    • AlexShepherd wrote: Why do we need to have a vote on removing Mira's mental health? She's an obvious psychopathic serial killer with a victim count of at least 18, who kills people even outside the Decision Game. No one has wanted to remove it entirely, which is dumb and asinine. If anyone wants to revise it, go ahead, but voting on removing it entirely is stupid.

      Unfortunately, it's going to be quite difficult to not remove the entire section if we're voting on getting rid of the speculation and false diagnosis of her mental "condition", for which there is little to no canon evidence on whether it exists or not.

      The speculative parts that we'll vote on to be removed are...

      "Mira is likely a born psychopath - when she was formed in her mother's womb, the genomes that formed her brain cortex governing emotions never formed correctly, resulting in emotional and empathetic impairment. It is almost certain Mira has blunted affect and possibly anhedonia. Mira is able to fake and feign emotions in order to get what she wants, observing and mimicking the emotions of others, faking happiness and smiles."

      "Mira is, secretly, a textbook psychopathic. She feels no remorse for killing humans or animals. She enjoys killing humans and animals, finding fun and pleasure in it. Mira is a sick depraved psychopath who believes she has the "right" to kill any human or animal she desires. She is selfish and doesn't care about anyone or anything but herself, even if it means they are hurt in the process. She seems completely devoid of any moral conscience and empathy, laughing in amusement after Eric tells her about his abusive life. Mira is psychologically sick, twisted, depraved, vicious and extremely dangerous. Despite this, it's difficult to categorize or label her as "evil" since she has a mental impairment."

      "Mira views humans, especially men, as pathetic, uninteresting, naive, helpless weaklings, as well as amusing creatures to be exploited (possibly for wealth, sex, and of course, their hearts), and then disposed of after using them to her advantage and collecting their hearts. This could point to Mira being a misanthrope who sees no value in human life -- her method of murder is completing mutilating and goring her victims' bodies, showing her disrespect and possible hatred of humanity.

      "As a serial killer, Mira murdered several people and harvesting their hearts to search for a "beautiful heart" that can make her feel "alive" by comforting her and exciting her emotions, like her first heart she felt as a child."

      "Mira seems to be skilled at hiding her violent and murderous serial killer tendencies as she hasn't been found yet, even after a victim count of 18. When Eric is shot in the heart by Q, Mira is more upset by the fact that his heart has been damaged by the crossbow arrow rather than Eric being in pain and suffering, showing where her priorities lie."

      We can keep the non-speculative parts from the examples above of course, I was just trying to show the general idea of what we're voting on to remove.

      JuneSlade (ドナルド)

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    • You literally just copied and pasted her "Psychopathy and emotional disorders" section. We don't need a vote on this. Her article is free to edit by anyone and can be revised by anyone.

      You're acting like revising and editing simply isn't an option, and we have to entirely keep or entirely delete something, which is dumb.

      Everything in this section is either heavily implied or said factually in-game, especially in the "study: heart ripper" scene. It's not a "false" diagnosis.

      If you think there's "little to no evidence" that Mira is a psychopath, or that Mira has blunted affect/anhedonia, you're hopeless. For example, one of the key words advertising ZTD on the teaser site was "psychopath" and the extra file says, "The smile that appears on her face is real. Mira no longer needs to plaster on a fake one." Mira obviously has emotional disorders. It's also literally stated in-game that she used to torture and kill animals.

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    • That is true, but it needs to have canon facts that show she is a psychopath.

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    • AlexShepherd wrote: You literally just copied and pasted her "Psychopathy and emotional disorders" section. We don't need a vote on this. Her article is free to edit by anyone and can be revised by anyone.

      You're acting like revising and editing simply isn't an option, and we have to entirely keep or entirely delete something, which is dumb.

      Everything in this section is either heavily implied or said factually in-game, especially in the "study: heart ripper" scene. It's not a "false" diagnosis.

      If you think there's "little to no evidence" that Mira is a psychopath, or that Mira has blunted affect/anhedonia, you're hopeless. For example, one of the key words advertising ZTD on the teaser site was "psychopath" and the extra file says, "The smile that appears on her face is real. Mira no longer needs to plaster on a fake one." Mira obviously has emotional disorders. It's also literally stated in-game that she used to torture and kill animals.

      Oh no, my bad, I didn't mean that we should delete the entire section. I just copied and pasted it to give the community a general idea of what were voting on. I do admit that my last reply was kinda confusing, but my intention was in the last sentence of my reply, when I said that we can keep the non-speculative parts of the section.

      Heavily implied is still not exactly canon, so I really don't think we should add that information if it is not factually stated in the game. You are totally right about the heart ripper scene though, I accidentally copied and pasted that with the rest of the section.

      Words that suggest speculation such as "likely", "almost certain", "could", etc.. are unacceptable for the wiki because we're not sure if they are canon facts, we're just jumping to conclusions using our own opinion when we use those words. I would just like to vote on deleting those parts, not the entire section.

      JuneSlade (ドナルド)

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    • Yes, we know she's a serial killer, it was revealed in ZTD. However, we shouldn't be trying to diagnose her, cause we aren't mental health experts and we don't know everything about her. When we do this, it becomes speculation and is no longer canon, and undermines our credibility as a wiki in the process.

      This may just be my opinion, but I don't think we need an entire section dedicated to Mira being a psycho. I say a paragraph is good enough, as it's covered throughout the page.

      Yes, she's a serial killer, but most of the section is speculation on how she got it and diagnosing her. This is the stuff that should be removed in my opinion.

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    • Don't vote on the deleting the entire PARAGRAPH, sentence-by-sentence is better, and I also suggest a revise as an option.

      JuneSlade: "Words that suggest speculation such as "likely", "almost certain", "could", etc.. are unacceptable for the wiki because we're not sure if they are canon facts, we're just jumping to conclusions using our own opinion when we use those words."

      Those words aren't unacceptable. LOTS and LOTS of wikis have theories, info and possibilities that aren't canon facts. And I don't see a problem with this if there's evidence to back it up, and if they're kept succinct. And we're not "jumping to conclusions", we're just saying, "Mira MIGHT have blunted affect." If we were "jumping to a conclusion", we would say "Mira has blunted affect".

      ZeroSkywalker: "However, we shouldn't be trying to diagnose her, cause we aren't mental health experts and we don't know everything about her."

      I don't see why we can't diagnose fictional characters and their health (both physical/mental) conditions on wikis? We don't have to know everything about a character to diagnose them if there's sufficient reasonable evidence in-game.

      ZeroSkywalker: "and undermines our credibility as a wiki in the process."

      Oh, come on. No one's going to read the Mira article and say "OMG! THE ZERO ESCAPE WIKI SUGGESTED MIRA MIGHT BE A MISANTHROPE AND MIGHT HAVE CERTAIN HEALTH CONDITIONS! IT SUX AND IT'S UNRELIABLE!" Anyone who does is an unreasonable idiot.

      If anything, I think this type of information enhances the article since it analyzes facets of Mira and helps us to "understand" who she is. We need to start taking mental health seriously, and I see no issue with analyzing the mental health of characters. It's not like we're coming out of left field and suggesting Mira has tourettes or agoraphobia.

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    • We're not deleting the entire paragraph, we're just removing the speculation, so that's pretty much the same thing as revising the section right?

      AlexShepherd: "LOTS and LOTS of wikis have theories, info and possibilities that aren't canon facts."

      Ok, please name some credible wikis that allow their editors to write speculation within their articles?

      AlexShepherd: "And we're not "jumping to conclusions", we're just saying, "Mira MIGHT have blunted affect."

      The article doesn't say "might" though, it says "almost certain". This isn't the only part of the section where it jumps to conclusions either. The parts about her genomes forming incorrectly at birth, being a "sick depraved psychopath", and so on are absolutely unacceptable because they are not supported by information from the game and is thus, an instance where you're jumping to conclusions.

      AlexShepherd: "I don't see why we can't diagnose fictional characters and their health (both physical/mental) conditions on wikis? We don't have to know everything about a character to diagnose them if there's sufficient reasonable evidence in-game."

      Why should we provide our readers with a diagnosis not supported by concrete facts? I feel like that is lying to them because it is simply a theory being disguised as reliable info for them. That's not the right thing to do, Alex. They trust us and our community for reliable information on the wiki, and we have to be careful on how and what we present to them.

      AlexShepherd: "Oh, come on. No one's going to read the Mira article and say "OMG! THE ZERO ESCAPE WIKI SUGGESTED MIRA MIGHT BE A MISANTHROPE AND MIGHT HAVE CERTAIN HEALTH CONDITIONS! IT SUX AND IT'S UNRELIABLE!" Anyone who does is an unreasonable idiot."

      Please stop insulting people who disagree with your beliefs, you're supposed to be setting an example for the community with your leadership. People actually do say that, and I agree that it is a valid argument because stuff like that doesn't belong on the wiki.

      AlexShepherd: "If anything, I think this type of information enhances the article since it analyzes facets of Mira and helps us to "understand" who she is. We need to start taking mental health seriously, and I see no issue with analyzing the mental health of characters. It's not like we're coming out of left field and suggesting Mira has tourettes or agoraphobia."

      None of us ever said that we don't take mental health seriously, it's just that the information that you want to retain about Mira's mental health just isn't supported by enough concrete facts for it to belong on the wiki.

      JuneSlade (ドナルド)

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    • "Ok, please name some credible wikis that allow their editors to write speculation within their articles?"

      What's "credible" or not is opinionated, and each individual article is different. I wouldn't say that such a thing as a "credible" wiki exists because of this. What I do believe is that wikis are allowed to use phrases like "possible", "could be", "may", "imply", etc, and your opinion that wikis can't or shouldn't use these phrases is silly.

      Actually, I changed my mind on Mira's blunted/shallow affect because she displays (fake) "emotions" (or mimicking), she just doesn't truly "feel" them, as said in-game, so I'll remove this part.

      Yes, Mira is psychologically sick, and a psychopath. One of the key words advertising ZTD was "psychopath". It's obvious it's a reference to Mira.

      "Why should we provide our readers with a diagnosis not supported by concrete facts?"

      They are supported by facts said in-game.

      "it is simply a theory being disguised as reliable info"

      It's not trying "to disguise itself as reliable info" or "disguise" itself as anything, it's just a heavily, heavily, heavily implied possibility which is marked as such and inferred.

      ""Please stop insulting people who disagree with your beliefs"

      I'm not trying to "insult people who disagree with my beliefs", I'm insulting people who clutch at straws and find the most ridiculous and absurd reasons to hate on wikis.

      "the information that you want to retain about Mira's mental health just isn't supported by enough concrete facts for it to belong on the wiki."

      Yes, it is and yes it does. It's just your opinion it doesn't.

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    • Actually, regarding the blunted affect.

      Mira was told she was perceived as "unfeeling", which means there are times when others have perceived her as emotionless. This IS literally reduced affect display. This is worth mentioning on her article.

      The Wikipedia is a bit confusing and vague as to what defines flat affect/blunted affect/shallow affect, so I won't mention any specific affects, but I will link to the article on reduced affect display.

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    • It is still a theory though. Wiki's are supposed to be reliable sources with canon information, not speculation. This includes the diagnosis of Mira's character. Like I said many times before, we aren't professionals, and we don't personally know Mira.

      Also, even if there are some in game facts that support a theory, it's still a theory. By putting theories and speculation on the wiki we're just hurting our reputation, and that's why I think it should be removed.

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    • It honestly just feels we're repeating ourselves over and over again.

      I recently rewrote a few parts with this conversation in mind.

      "Wiki's are supposed to be reliable sources with canon information, not speculation."

      This is technically an opinion. Wikis can serve a multitude of purposes, even speculation. It's just that some wikis have differing rules about speculation and its leniency.

      Also, I want to make it clear that wikis don't (necessarily) exist for the purpose of "having a good reputation" or "being liked". While that's a nice bonus, it's not the sole purpose or highest priority of wikis.

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    • You could try and reframe tons of shit as "speculation" if you really wanted to.

      Technically speaking, Akane being Zero is only "heavily, heavily, heavily implied". All she ever says is something about being "less than Zero", "not yet Zero" and other non-direct lines, and the sequels write around ever calling her Zero (I can't fathom why). But the implication is clearly there to lead you to that conclusion.

      You can't write an article on fiction from an entirely objective stance because fiction is made to be interpreted.

      Anyway, if I was writing the article, it would be better to instead mention the similarities between, say, Mira's conditions and real-world conditions. "Mira's mental state heavily resembles that of [x illness]." Or "Clover has been shown to have violent outbursts under pressure on [x] separate occasions".

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    • AlexShepherd: "What's "credible" or not is opinionated, and each individual article is different. I wouldn't say that such a thing as a "credible" wiki exists because of this. What I do believe is that wikis are allowed to use phrases like "possible", "could be", "may", "imply", etc, and your opinion that wikis can't or shouldn't use these phrases is silly."

      When we talked about this before, you considered Wikipedia as credible and professional source of information and said that all wikis aspire to be like it. If so, the fact is that they don't allow speculation, so that would completely go against your idea.

      Wikipedia2

      "Yes, Mira is psychologically sick, and a psychopath. One of the key words advertising ZTD was "psychopath". It's obvious it's a reference to Mira."

      She could potentially be a psychopath, but what if she's suffering from something else that is causing her behavior? The fact is that we don't know because the game doesn't specify her condition, assuming she even has one.

      "They are supported by facts said in-game."

      Just because there is evidence for something, it doesn't mean that it is true. Causation does not imply correlation. The game does not straight up say that she has this condition, so we can't assume that she has it.

      "It's not trying "to disguise itself as reliable info" or "disguise" itself as anything, it's just a heavily, heavily, heavily implied possibility which is marked as such and inferred."

      Even if something is heavily implied, that doesn't make it true or even a valid statement. If we choose to keep that section on the article, then yes, we are in fact disguising a heavily implied theory as canon information, which is not the right thing to do.

      "I'm not trying to "insult people who disagree with my beliefs", I'm insulting people who clutch at straws and find the most ridiculous and absurd reasons to hate on wikis."

      I don't think it's that people are hating the wiki, they're just trying to help us make it a better place for reliable information for all Zero Escape fans. Remember that this isn't a place that is supposed to appeal to just you, we're supposed to try to appeal to all fans of the series. Oh and calling people who don't like speculation on the wiki unreasonable idiots is not an example of insulting people against your beliefs? Please don't try to justify it, just don't do it.

      "Yes, it is and yes it does. It's just your opinion it doesn't."

      Well, the fact that you think it does belong on the wiki is an opinion in itself, so you can't really use that argument here.

      "Actually, regarding the blunted affect. Mira was told she was perceived as "unfeeling", which means there are times when others have perceived her as emotionless. This IS literally reduced affect display. This is worth mentioning on her article."

      Without the game stating that she has RAD, who are we to say that she has reduced affect display rather than just simply being apathetic? Again, we don't know, so it doesn't belong in her article.

      1337doom:"You could try and reframe tons of shit as "speculation" if you really wanted to. Technically speaking, Akane being Zero is only "heavily, heavily, heavily implied". All she ever says is something about being "less than Zero", "not yet Zero" and other non-direct lines, and the sequels write around ever calling her Zero (I can't fathom why). But the implication is clearly there to lead you to that conclusion. You can't write an article on fiction from an entirely objective stance because fiction is made to be interpreted. Anyway, if I was writing the article, it would be better to instead mention the similarities between, say, Mira's conditions and real-world conditions. "Mira's mental state heavily resembles that of [x illness]." Or "Clover has been shown to have violent outbursts under pressure on [x] separate occasions"."

      IAmZero

      Actually, June does say in-game that she is Zero, as shown on the screenshot at the right. That is an example of the game directly telling us a fact and is the reason that June being Zero is not speculation.

      There is no need to mention similarities between Mira's condition and real world conditions because we don't know exactly what her condition is, or if she even has one.

      JuneSlade (ドナルド)

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    • I agree we shouldn't jump to conclusions and assume she has a certain condition.

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    • Wikipedia is extremely different from Wikia in many ways because it acts as a "main" wiki which can't go into detail in many areas. For example, Wikipedia doesn't also have Trivia sections or Galleries really either - that doesn't mean I want Trivia/Galleries on Wikia to be removed. Even Wikipedia doesn't ban "may", "could be", "possible", "imply". Wikipedia isn't 100% facts, it also lists a lot of notable possibilities.

      Mira is obviously a psychopath, and she obviously has a condition. Ask Uchikoshi if he intended Mira to be one, if she has any other mental illnesses, and ask about Clover. I don't have Twitter.

      "calling people who don't like speculation on the wiki unreasonable idiots is not an example of insulting people against your beliefs? Please don't try to justify it, just don't do it."

      Don't twist what I said. I NEVER said those who don't like "speculation" idiots. I'm not going to repeat myself because you can't properly read what I wrote.

      "Without the game stating that she has RAD, who are we to say that she has reduced affect display rather than just simply being apathetic? Again, we don't know, so it doesn't belong in her article."

      She has RAD because she was told, "ever since she was a child" that she was "ALWAYS" "unfeeling". I'd argue Mira is both apathetic and has RAD. The Wikipedia article on apathy says: "Apathy should be distinguished from reduced affect, which refers to reduced emotional expression but not necessarily reduced emotion." Both apply to Mira.

      Mira's mental conditions are a HUGE part and aspect of her character, extremely notable and relevant, and there's sufficient evidence in-game to mention psychopathy and RAD. Remember that scene where she blatantly murders Eric and a child, smiles and laughs about it? Honestly, it still sounds you're giving free passes to serial killers.

      "We don't even know if Mira has a mental condition"

      WOW, REALLY? After her serial killer count of 18 and everything you watched of her in-game, you say, "we don't even know if Mira has a mental condition." *facepalm*

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    • We may go into more detail, but that doesn't mean that we should allow speculation and theories.

      Also, just because Mira was apathetic as a child doesn't mean she had RAD. Also, she was infected with Radical 6 in that timeline where she kills Eric and Sean. In the end, Mira having RAD is a theory and, in my opinion, shouldn't be on the wiki.

      We're not giving free passes on serial killers if we don't include RAD. We don't want to include it as it is speculation, not because we're giving Mira a free pass. Just because she acts like that in the game doesn't mean it correlates to the real world. It's just a theory, and therefore, shouldn't be on the wiki.

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    • True about Zero, but that was still only one example. Fiction still works on implication and speculation. That's the whole deal. Mentioning how Mira or Clover's minds resemble [x thing] is completely objective, doesn't make any claims as to whether they actually have [x thing] and is completely normal for wikis to do. It's never "confirmed" that the Memo function in VLR fading away was representative of Sigma's memory, but we have that listed here because it's a natural assumption to make. Same with comparing Schrodinger's Cat to different parts of the game. If you really want to remove all forms of analysis from the wiki, you have to do so across the board, not just with "uncomfortable" topics like mental illness.

      If you see Wikipedia as the standard of documentation, it does this stuff too. Check out the Serial Experiments Lain page, and scroll down to the themes section and one of the things it mentions is that dissociative identity disorder is a major theme in Lain. At no point is Lain ever "confirmed" to have it, and I can make arguments for and against that, but Wikipedia still mentions how the story is invoking that mental illness as a theme. Analysis (it's not speculation, it's analysis) is totally normal for wikis to document to a certain extent.

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    • 1337doom has some good points.

      "Also, just because Mira was apathetic as a child doesn't mean she had RAD."

      You're denying what she says in-game:

      "EVER SINCE I was little, I've ALWAYS been told I'm UNFEELING."

      It wasn't only when she was a child, it's throughout her whole life. Throughout her life, she's ALWAYS been perceived as UNFEELING. This IS RAD.

      "Also, she was infected with Radical 6 in that timeline where she kills Eric and Sean."

      So? What's your point? "Murdering other people" is not a known symptom of Radical-6. It's obvious she kills them because she's a psychopathic serial killer, not a victim of a disease. Even if murder was a symptom of Radical-6, it still doesn't erase Mira's murders before the Decision Game.

      "In the end, Mira having RAD is a theory"

      No, it's not. See my first point.

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    • It is not clearly stated in the game, and Uchikoshi hasn't confirmed it yet.

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    • A FANDOM user
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